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Message: 4713
Author: Daniel
Date: 22/03/2005
Subject: Dr Andrew Broad's List of MM/JSW Games
--- In manicminerandjetsetwilly@yahoogroups.com, andrewbroad
> After weeks of extreme busyness, I plan to update my List of MM/JSW
Andrew, I believe that your website, just as this Club, is the focal
> Games within the next few days (in fact I'm now in the middle of
> updating it offline, but it's not in a quiescent state yet).
> The biggest change will be the addition of a JSW64 category.
>
point for anyone interested in JSW/MM today. I also believe that the
list of JSW/MM games which you maintain is very important, because it
is THE official list of all of the existing games, as much as
anything gets official with JSW, and an absolute point of reference
for everyone interested. John Elliott himself admits on his
website: "I used to list the JSW128 games people had written here,
but Andrew Broad does this much better than I do". Therefore, I feel
that your list is in a sense, if you permit me to say so, partly
public domain, because it is so important for everybody.
Therefore I would like to offer some comments and suggestions
regarding it, and I hope you will not mind this contribution, whose
only objective is striving to achieve the highest accuracy and
fairness possible.
I feel there are some cases where the list is inflated, and others
where it does not fully reflect the number of the existing games.
Specifically:
Adam Britton's "The Continuing Adventures" is included twice in the
list of 48k engine JSW games, first its original 1985 edition under
number 5, and then its special 1998 edition under number 10. I know
that in your document "Bugs in Specific JSW Games" you say:
"However, since TCA-SE removes 'The Sky-Ladder' [42], and also
because the original TCA has historical value, I consider TCA and TCA-
SE to be parallel variants, rather than that TCA-SE absolutely
supersedes TCA."
I absolutely agree about the historical value of the original TCA,
and I could agree that TCA and TCA-SE might be considered VARIANTS,
but I feel that including them in the list as two SEPARATE games
inflates the number of the existing games unjustly. This is because
the total amount of differences between them - if you will allow
me to approach it "scientifically" (in big inverted commas) - is, in
my opinion, not big enough to justify considering them to be two
separate games. Okay, there is one room that is "missing" from TCA-
SE , and there are some minor differences in other rooms. But in Ian
Collier's hack of the original JSW there are FOUR new rooms, and yet
you only mention it in the JSW Tidbits and do not include it in the
list of JSW games as a separate entry - and quite rightly so, I
believe. Similarly, Darren McCowan's "JSW (Sunday Afternoon Graphical
Remix)" has a lot more differences with the original JSW as far as
graphics and sprites are concerned than there are between TCA and TCA-
SE. And yet you also include it "only" in the Tidbits section, not as
a separate game - and also quite rightly so, I believe.
So my postulate - if I can express it - would be to include
JSW TCA/TCA-SE under number 5, for example like this:
5. The Continuing Adventures [Adam Britton, original edition 1985,
Special Edition 1998]
Then in the Tidbits it would be fair to mention the fact that there
exist two versions of the game, that they are different and might be
considered parallel variants, etc.
I wonder what Adam himself would have to say about this - and I
think his opinion should matter, too. I also hope that one day Adam
WILL release Special Editions of his other two games - "The Deadly
Mission" and "Willy's Holiday". In this case I believe each of them
should still occupy one entry on the list, because otherwise the
total number of games would be inflated by 3.
Frosya the Cat - Frosya the Cat: Lite Version - Jet Cat
Frosya
I believe in this case the fruits of an excellent creative process
which has led to the emergence of "Jet Cat Frosya" are mentioned
three times where one mention would be more justified. Igor Makovsky
himself puts the following heading on top of the text file for JCF:
"JET CAT FROSYA" (C) or "FROSYA THE CAT" (C), 2002, 2004
and then confesses:
"This game was released first in march of 2002, but it contained a
lot of bugs and it was impossible to finish it. After fixing half of
the bugs, I`ve released a simpler version of 'Frosya' - 'Frosya
lite version' in the summer of 2002, but even this version contained
bugs and was impossible to be finished. Now, in september of 2004 I
release a fully 100% made and playable and even finishable version of
this game with a lot of new added stuff, including new intro screens
and two new text files, including with the game."
So clearly Igor himself - Igor, please correct me if I'm wrong
- perceives these games as VERSIONS of one game, not separate games.
So I think it would be fair to include them as one entry in your list
of 128k engine JSW games, for example like this:
7. Jet Cat Frosya [Igor Makovsky, 2002-2004, originally released as
Frosya the Cat]
or something like that. Then in the Tidbits it would be proper to
explain that there exist three versions of the game, offer links to
download each of them, etc.
Since you are going to add a new category, the JSW 64, I would like
to kindly suggest that perhaps you might also add a couple of
subcategories, something like "Historic / Alternative Versions". Then
in the "48k engine Historic Versions" subcategory you might include
the original TCA edition, perhaps Steve Worek's earlier versions
of "Jet Set Emily: Baby on the Go", perhaps the games which were put
together by Richard Hallas to create "JSW In Space" and which he
makes available for download on his website
(http://www.hallas.demon.co.uk/Software/spaceres.zip), etc. And
the "128k engine Historic Versions" subcategory might clearly include
Igor's original release of "Frosya the Cat" plus its "Lite Version",
and pehaps other games - I'm not sure about Edward Martland's
"The Time Hole" - in your list only Special Edition is included, but
there must have existed an original version, I presume?
While the above are cases where I feel the list is inflated, there
are other cases where I believe the numbers assigned do not fully
represent the existing games. These are:
- Your own "Party Willy". Since the 48k version has two parts, and
each of them is a full-blown game (even though they are intrinsically
linked), I think it would be fair to put two separate numbers or one
double number on the list, for example like this (the numbers below
do not take into account my earlier suggestion about TCA and TCA-SE,
which would set the whole latter part of the list one number
backwards):
37. Party Willy Part 1 [Andrew Broad, Broadsoft, 2004]
38. Party Willy Part 2 [Andrew Broad, Broadsoft, 2004]
- A similar case is the DrUnKeN mAsTeR's "The F.I.T". It has three
separate parts, and probably deserves to have three numbers on the
list. I say "probably", because parts 1 and 2 contain a number of
unmodified or just slightly modified rooms from the original JSW, so
it might be discussed whether each of them should be assigned a
separate number on the list. The author himself admits in the text
file, concerning part 1, "After all it is just a remix not really a
full on conversion", and then about part 2 he says: "[I] decided to
go the whole hog and do a remake. I don't intend to change the games
structure drastically like my recent games, but just enough to be
classed as a remake rather than a remix". So after all how would you
classify each of them, DrUnKeN mAsTeR?
If it is confirmed that each of the parts of the trilogy deserves a
separate number, my humble suggestion for the list would be:
39. The F.I.T. Part 1 (Jet Set Willy: Fucked Internet Remix) [DrUnKeN
mAsTeR, BaSe1 PrOdUcTiOnZ, 2004]
40. The F.I.T. Part 2 (Jet Set Willy: Fucked Internet Remake)
[DrUnKeN mAsTeR, BaSe1 PrOdUcTiOnZ, 2004]
41. The F.I.T. Part 3 (Jet Set Willy: Fucked Internet Resurrection)
[DrUnKeN mAsTeR, BaSe1 PrOdUcTiOnZ, 2004]
or something like that.
Someone might say that all of the above is an academic question
anyway. Maybe so, but for the sake of accuracy I think it matters.
Because one day, I hope, the DrUnKeN mAsTeR will release his "7 days
in the sun", and then if all parts of the series are put on the list
under just one number, it would diminish the REAL number of the
existing games by 6!
I am sorry if this message is too long, and also if the question has
been discussed previously - I haven't had time to read the
previous Club messages yet - I would like to do it some day, but
there are so many of them - literally thousands. I also hope, Andrew,
that you will not consider it an improper interference with the
contents of YOUR list - but as I explained above, I think the list is
so definitive and important as to have become a kind of "public
domain", and I think its value can only increase if it reflects the
opinion of the majority of the members of the JSW/MM community.
Therefore, I am very interested in what other people have to say on
this subject, the authors of the games specifically mentioned above
and everyone else involved.
Daniel
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