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Message: 4158
Author: Alexandra
Date: 02/05/2004
Subject: Re: Andrew's beta-review of Role Reversal
--- In manicminerandjetsetwilly@yahoogroups.com, andrewbroad
> [Re: Files > Arcane design > JSW - RR beta.zip]
I spotted that after I uploaded and kicked myself. Sorry John, I've
>
> Let's get the linguistic points out of the way first:
> * Readme.txt: Jopn Eliott -> John Elliott
done that twice and it's nothing personal. I think the confusing (to
me) spelling makes me subconsciously nervous or something :P
> * The room-titles are inconsistent in their use of capitals - some
Originally many of the room titles were entered in all lowercase,
> nouns are capitalised, others not so. For a given game, you should
> decide the rules by which words should be capitalised in room-
> titles, and stick to these rules.
then I had a change of heart and went through 'correcting' them, but
did a half-arsed job of it. Presentation matters will be cleared up
for the final release :)
> [0] "Back door": That's the first time I've seen a non-swinging
rope
> outside of my own games!
Really? Wow... I thought they were less rare than that! *tries to
think of another game with a static rope* *fails*. Hmmm. Well they
are cool, almost like ladders. People should use them more. I want to
make a room with 3 or 4 of them in soon.
> :-) Of course I'm way behind in playing
Good :). I recommend Still Stealin' by the Drunken Master, but you're
> others' games to completion, something I /do/ plan to rectify...
probably doing them in chronological order...
> @[1] "Burial site": Excellent use of colour-attributes, and
Correct.
> apparently two static-nasty types! The green ones must in fact be
> guardians - otherwise it would be necessary to sacrifice a life
> after collecting the item.
> Navigating the conveyor with two HGs is
Best to take a 'no hesitation' approach, like we do with 'Security
> deceptively difficult!
Guard' etc in the original JSW.
> [2] "The Jobcenter" (Jobcentre - "center" is an Americanism)
I hate that particular Americanism, too, even though it's more
logical.
> What's
have
> with the black hole at the top? Why not instead make the player
> to jump up against the wall to get past the green letter?
That was too tight for my liking, and besides, that hole is where you
fall down thru from the room above. I know falling thru a solid block
would work just as well, but I generally don't use that in my games
unless I want to give the impression of a secret 'passthrough'
wall/celing.
> [3] "The Roof garden": Simply beautiful.
Thanks :). I managed to get even more blockpatterns here by abusing
the Erix1 block colouring routine (I think the block graphics bug
also kicked in). It was a rather happy semi-accident :)
> @[5] "Forgotten realm": Those blinking platforms - reminiscent of
challenge!
> Booty - create a frustrating and non-snapshot-sympathetic
> But frustrating rooms give me the sweetest feeling when I finally
One of my favourites too, pretty easy when you've cracked it a few
> crack them. :-)
times as well, which is nice.
> [9] "Septic tanks": An attractive room, with deceptively
frustrating
> guardian-interaction! Is the jerky bird supposed to be sick?
Yes, I couldn't resist leaving that in, because of the funky head
movements.
> I like
I may well crumble and do just that. Can't hurt :)
> the Promised-Land niche at the bottom-left (even though it's only
> two hops away, so not much of a Promised Land). I would definitely
> make the player /have/ to jump through the ILB!
> [10] "Air patrol": A cross between "Wacky Amoebatrons" from Manic
Certain guardians in certain rooms are hardcoded with that effect. I
> Miner, and "Under the mansion"/"Outskirts of town" in _Join the Jet-
> Set!_. The zigzagging bird was quite a shock!
originally wanted the bird to fly in a diamond shape through
carefully placed holes in the platform arrangement, but the damn
thing always drifted out of phase slowly and crashed into a block.
> [11] "Back staircase": Another Adam-Brittonesque room. If you jump
It was unintentional but I noticed it during my playtesting. I'm
> through the overhead wall-block at the very top-left, you can walk
> through the left wall in "Top of stairs" - unintended? I
> deliberately exploited this very move in We Pretty! :-)
going to leave it in and put a hint in the readme, that there is a
hidden shortcut in the room. That'll get a few laypeople wondering :)
> [13] "The local ruins": A strange and disorientating screen-layout,
No, it's supposed to unblock a passage in "The Stop-cock",
> and a questionable colour-scheme. I'm not sure what to make of this
> room. Is the switch really supposed to kill you?
effectively meaning you never have to cross back from right to left
across "A Busy Road" after visiting the Eastern side of the map. But
it triggers some text which crashes with scenery and kills you when
it's drawn (which I intend to fix obviously!).
>The non-colour-
end
> cycling items are unfair - I had to make my way back here at the
> of the game when ItemsJSW informed me that there were three
I was aiming to make these extra lives, but I couldn't work out how
> uncollected in this room.
to enable that feature in Erix1's room hackulator. I will probably
redo this room as something else.
> [14] "The Workshop": A nice `Vatish' room with a _Monty On The Run_
Thanks! I'll think about changing the name.
> atmosphere - escaping without sacrificing life is a nice extra
> challenge! :-) Worthy of a more exciting room-title.
> @[15] "random Gun Shop": A truly splendid room, complete with
switch
> to toggle conveyor-direction. The jumps required to pass the two
out
> rolling boxes are unorthodox and fun, as is the way you can jump
> of the shop on the right! The dog-sprite is quite cute, too - may I
Sure... I found him in Erix1's bonus game as a seemingly
> use it in my own games?
unimplimented sprite with just one frame. I added the walk and made
him wink, but neglected to add hands/paws. Maybe he's in a
straightjacket :)
> [18] "Storage room": A good example of a Promised Land. I wish
there
> were more in this game, and indeed in almost all non-Broadsoft JSW
Promised Lands almost always add X-factor to a game, I usually set
> games.
out to incorporate them but I realise there aren't as many as there
could be.
There are major Promised Lands at The Wine Cellar, The Local Ruins,
Storage Room, The Stop-cock/House Outlet... and a few minor ones such
at Septic Tanks/Back Door. Next time I'll certainly try to add more ;)
> [24] "The Balcony": A nice exploitation of Erix1 Mode. I like the
It's not much of a one-way entrance though, as it's a very short trip
> switch to change the conveyor-direction, and the psychotic
> horizontal chef that smiles in one direction and turns murderous in
> the other! Not sure I like the one-way entrance though.
to get back again.
> [25] "A Polluted lake": Always cool to see horizontal lifts in a
JSW
> game! When are we going to see vertical lifts à la JSW II?
It's doable with the current engine but obviously as the lift came
up, the player would not be raised and end up dumped.
> The "poisonous pansies" from Manic Miner would have to be my all-
own
> time favourite static-nasty graphic - I use it quite often in my
> games.
I noticed ;)
> The black bird with a white `undersparkle' looks somewhat
I agree, I'll try and fix it up.
> unattractive though.
> [27] "Master Bedroom": Interesting for me to see this room after
I'll see if that's possible.
> writing "bedroom role reversal games" for Party Willy! :-) Wish
> Willy would animate like Maria in the original JSW.
> [28] "Top Landing": I like having a Promised Land right at the
start
> of the game! I did likewise in Goodnite Luddite; Sabre Wulf was the
Monty on the Run (second screen, top right) was my first example of
> first example for me.
that. I remember thinking only expert players could get up there!
> [32] "The Dining Room": One of the better crumbling-floor rooms in
Would be even harder in MM ;)
> this game, requiring a bit of timing and forward-thinking.
> [34] "The Fridge": A good conveyor/guardians timing-challenge:
I'd change it if I could but the geography leaves me no choice but to
> getting back is the harder part, so I would have made the player
> have to exit and reenter the room (to get an item in a Promised
> Land).
leave it.
> [37] I'm not particularly keen
But again it forces you into a small one-way system which only takes
> on the way the upper HG closes in on you when reentering at the top-
> left - when exploring an unfamiliar JSW game, I always like to poke
> my head through all doors before deciding which exit to go with!
a short while to navigate.
> [38] "Toolshed": It's too tempting to kamikaze the rightmore item
I'd
> with a long fall, so this should be blocked off either at the top,
> or with crumbling floor at the bottom. You could even put a
> crumbling-floor block at the item's coordinates! I do this often to
> protect items in my MM games, so this is definitely the solution
> go for.
I can't put crumblers in this particular room (you have to choose
between fire and crumblers, though you can also turn ramps into fire
and then turn some water into those ramps with a bit of careful
planning... Not as confusing as it sounds!). So anyway, I've put an
extra block of floor to stop the suicide-collectors. Originally I
wanted it to be kamikaziable (?!) because the original room in JSW
was, but you've twisted my arm :)
> [40] "Crazy Kitchen": Who's been playing "Wiredlife" in _Ma jolie_
This was actually inspired by my own room "Driller Killer" in Where's
> then? ;-)
Woody, which has VG's that pass thru blocks specially made to fit
them. I've also re-used that idea in other unseen games. Problem with
WW is it's so bloody huge that most people probably won't find the
cool stuff!
> [45] "A compost heap": A very atmospheric if not visually
attractive
> room, with some good technical touches too. Slightly reminiscent of
space.
> a couple of rooms from _Jet Set Dizzy_ ("Andrew Broad's Computer
> Study" and "The Mountain"). I like it how the item is Maria's head,
> the zig-zagging path of the green bird, and how the BORDER is blue
> like the background-PAPER, enhancing the sense of a wide-open
> Almost worthy of a `@' IMO.
Really? Cool.. I thought it wasn't that good, but I will reconsider
with fresh eyes. Actually looking in the editor it seems I've
trampled that room since then (and replaced it with something very
dire!), but luckily I have the room in a backup copy.
> [46] "Onto the Roof": A combination of crumbling floors, horizontal
You can stand on the flame/booster part of the lifts. Don't know if
> lifts and a relentless vertical guardian, creates a challenge of
> almost Broadsoft proportions! ;-) The way down to "the Zen room" is
> a novel (at least to me) combination of crumbling floors and JSW-
> exits.
you knew that but it can make it easier.
> [49] "Nightmare Room": A good crumbling-floors challenge; nothing
Well you play as a different sprite, that was my reasoning :). But I
> particularly nightmarish about it! ;-)
could call this "The Lego Room" or something. (Or even The Blue Room
as a tribute to The Orb's 45 minute chart single!)
> [50] "The Town sewer": Fond of sewers and _Monty On The Run_,
aren't
> you? ;-)
Very much so. How on earth did you guess? ;). I don't know where the
sewer fixation came from, I guess they make a good hazardous setting
for a platform game, plus I like subterranean rooms.
> The way you miss the item and cannot go back for it if you
Designer thinks it's funny. Player thinks it's frustrating... Hmm..
> exit Room 51 too far to the right, is frustrating and should be
> eliminated.
Ok, I'll move it to the right a bit.
> The way the ramp interacts with the crumbling floor is
a
> most intriguing! Perhaps crumbling floor should make you sink like
> ramp does.
That would make it quite tricky wouldn't it ;). I'll experiment with
more of that kind of thing in my next Erix1-mode game.
> @[52] ">House outlet>": A great combination of fast-crumbling
Note to Dasse: See, this room /is/ possible ;) *chuckles*.
> floors, switches and horizontal lifts.
> Damb, I wish I'd gone left
That's a bit of a bummer I guess, but not so bad once the passage
> from "The Town sewer" when I had the chance!
in "The Stop-cock" is opened up (at the moment you can't do that
because the switch in the Ruins kills you).
> [53] "The Crypt": A visually attractive room, but jumping back from
Noted. Obviously it can be avoided by jumping from against the
> the water is an occasion of infinite death.
rightmost wall, but I'll see if I can eliminate it completely without
messing up the delicate atmosphere of the room.
> [54] "Eternal Unrest": A nice Buffy-the-Vampire-Slayeresque
No, it's not, I am planning on removing it with a hex editor. I hate
> atmosphere. The single animated conveyor-block looks unattractive,
> though - is this a must in Erix1 Mode?
those little conveyor artifacts when other people leave them behind.
(I'll also kill the one in the Crazy Kitchen, as it's nonsensical).
> [55] "The mashup room": This is the first time I've seen a switch
So do I :). Actually I think that's doable if I sacraficed the
> used to freeze moving platforms! (Haven't got round to playing the
> original MvSB seriously yet - sorry Vidar.) I wish you could flick
> it back to make them move again though.
conveyor to be used as another switch. But I like that conveyor...
Next time I will make a room like that.
> [56] "Temple of Doom": Another nice switch-effect (and an
That is actually a mistake which was corrected shortly after
> atmospheric, visually attractive room to boot), and I like the way
> you have to jump through an overhead wall-block to collect the item
> behind the yellow nasty - even had /me/ fooled for a minute! ;-)
uploading. You're supposed to get the item another, more novel, way.
The crumbling foliage has been removed to stop that method of
collection.
> [57] "A busy road": Striking use of more colour-attributes than I
Unfortunately, no. And if you unblock the passage in the Stop-cock
> would have thought possible in a JSW game before I saw Erix1 Mode!
> The wraparound HGs make it way too easy to cross from left to right
> though - I don't suppose Erix1 Mode supports fast HGs à la Geoff
> Mode?
room before heading east, you'll never have to pass from right to
left in this screen. Not sure how I feel about that, actually. I may
change it to force the player do it the hard way.
> [58] "Swimming pool": Reminds me of "Spooky Corridor" in _Jet Set
Noted. I wanted the edges of the nasties to be clearly defined, hence
> Dizzy_. The blocky yellow graphics look unattractive.
the blocky design, but I'll try for something more visually pleasing.
> @[59] "Kamikazi Cavern" (Kamikaze): Clever use of crumbling floors,
Yeah, that would be cool... No doubt you'll find a way to make it
> especially if you are to escape with your life! I like the modified
> Moonface sprite, too. Please may I do a Manic Miner conversion of
> this room? I wouldn't be able to call it "Kamikaze" though! ;-)
harder too..
> [60] "The Shouts Room": I take it the blasphemous text-message is a
Yes it is. I'm planning on hacking the text of course.
> residue from _Maria vs. some bastards_? Should be edited or
> eliminated. Innovative use of conveyor-blocks though.
> [61] "Hopscotch Traps": First time for me to see this effect!
(sorry
> Vidar). Like sticky conveyors with induced jumping. Crossing the
Yes. I wanted a fairly easy-ish game, or one that would be inviting
> bottom is bl**dy difficult! ;-)
to lay-players, but even easy games have to have the odd evil part
methinks :)
> Overall, Role Reversal is a very impressive game technically, and a
(e.g.
> very attractive game visually. The Erix1-mode special effects make
> up for the lack of quirky features, although there are a few quirky
> features just crying out to be deliberately exploited or added
> Rooms 9, 11, 38).
Glad you approve. I think it's my best effort to date, and shows
more 'maturity' as a designer than my earlier games, with the
possible exception of Strangel and Death TV.
> The use of crumbling floors is rather mundane in many rooms, but
I was deliberately underplaying the crumbling floors in a lot of
> there are some great crumbling-floor challenges too.
rooms, yes. Remember the average player probably finds even simple
crumbling floor challenges difficult ("oh my god, the floor is
falling away!"), but us more advanced players need a little extra
(more devious placements etc). I guess I was trying to strike a
balance.
> There are a few
Next game :)
> Promised Lands, but if it were my game I'd try to get more Promised
> Lands in, and of course more quirky features! :-)
> I finished with 255 items. Role Reversal cannot be item-completed
Yikes... I can't even see that room in JSWED. No doubt Erix1 will
> because the 256th item is in Room 62, which is unreachable, and in
> fact contains half of the item-table.
have the answer :)
> I tested the end-game sequence using POKE 34271,1 at runtime (this
The end of the bed is supposed to be the 'toilet' which will change
> sets Status 1, making Maria - or in this case Willy - disappear as
> when the last item is collected). You run right in "Master
> Bedroom"... and stop at the wall (I solved this in _ylliW teS teJ_
> by having a cavity at the bottom-right of Master Bedroom, leading
> back to The Bathroom).
into a sprite depicting Maria laying on the bed (ooh-er!). But for
some reason my 'toilet' (bed) has gone walkies and I can't see it
apart from in the editor. Again, I pin my hopes on Erix1 ;)
> So Role Reversal needs two fixes: one to make it item-completable,
There is also going to be some extra stuff for presentation purposes.
> and another to make it toilet-completable.
No prizes for guessing who is helping me out (read: doing it for me)
there ;)
> Erroneous coloured squares started to fill the screen from the
Yes. Again I am relying on a certain someone to fix it..
> bottom-right when I had about 147 items. Wasn't this the bug that
> was fixed in Revision E of _Maria vs. some bastards_?
Thanks for taking the time to give detailed feedback, Andrew.
Hopefully I will get back into editing soon, I am kind of getting
inspired but last time I sat with JSWED I was drawing blanks.
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